Comments on: GlassFish Users: Where to go next? http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/ Musings from the MuleSoft Experts Wed, 08 Sep 2010 22:06:52 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Community http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/comment-page-1/#comment-4262 Community Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:07:29 +0000 http://blogs.mulesoft.org/?p=1761#comment-4262 Thanks, Erik. The link to the whitepaper has been fixed. Thanks, Erik. The link to the whitepaper has been fixed.

]]> By: Erik Weibust http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/comment-page-1/#comment-4242 Erik Weibust Sun, 21 Feb 2010 04:19:44 +0000 http://blogs.mulesoft.org/?p=1761#comment-4242 Sateesh, The link to the whitepaper appears to be broken... Can you fix or send me the whitepaper? Thanks... Erik Sateesh,

The link to the whitepaper appears to be broken… Can you fix or send me the whitepaper?

Thanks…
Erik

]]> By: Alexis MP http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/comment-page-1/#comment-4152 Alexis MP Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:14:06 +0000 http://blogs.mulesoft.org/?p=1761#comment-4152 GlassFish does have a *single* XML config and that's precisely what the GlassFish built-in CLI and RESTful admin API modify and what seemed to have pleased a number of hosting companies recently. Granted this came with v3. GlassFish does have a *single* XML config and that’s precisely what the GlassFish built-in CLI and RESTful admin API modify and what seemed to have pleased a number of hosting companies recently. Granted this came with v3.

]]> By: Geir Hedemark http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/comment-page-1/#comment-4150 Geir Hedemark Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:14:47 +0000 http://blogs.mulesoft.org/?p=1761#comment-4150 @Alexis: >GlassFish v3 is much closer to Tomcat and the likes than you seem to think (far from pointy-clicky in fact). I never said it was. I want an appserver with an XML configuration file that is easy enough to easily teach generic hosting people and have them assemble using standard hosting tools. One-off CLIs or REST APIs are going to cost me more money to have integrated and maintained. @Alexis:
>GlassFish v3 is much closer to Tomcat and the likes than you seem to think (far from pointy-clicky in fact).

I never said it was.

I want an appserver with an XML configuration file that is easy enough to easily teach generic hosting people and have them assemble using standard hosting tools.

One-off CLIs or REST APIs are going to cost me more money to have integrated and maintained.

]]> By: Alexis MP http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/comment-page-1/#comment-4124 Alexis MP Thu, 04 Feb 2010 20:16:42 +0000 http://blogs.mulesoft.org/?p=1761#comment-4124 @Geir : GlassFish v3 is much closer to Tomcat and the likes than you seem to think (far from pointy-clicky in fact). With admin CLI, RESTful admin API, standard "java -jar glassfish.jar foo.war", a maven 2 plugin and overall fast startup time I think you need to try it! @Geir :
GlassFish v3 is much closer to Tomcat and the likes than you seem to think (far from pointy-clicky in fact).
With admin CLI, RESTful admin API, standard “java -jar glassfish.jar foo.war”, a maven 2 plugin and overall fast startup time I think you need to try it!

]]> By: Geir Hedemark http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/comment-page-1/#comment-4123 Geir Hedemark Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:05:38 +0000 http://blogs.mulesoft.org/?p=1761#comment-4123 @Ryan: >Developers and operations also want full featured easy to use management tools, like what comes free in GlassFish Actually, the "operations" part of your statement is incorrect. Glassfish tries to encompass too much hosting-related functionality, and therefore is fairly costly to integrate into an automated deployment and change management regime. When it comes to operations, Jetty, Resin or Tomcat has a much lower cost both up front and maintenance-wise. You won't notice this in operations which use pointy-clicky interfaces to manage servers, though. I guess there still are some of them out there. @Ryan:

>Developers and operations also want full featured easy to use management tools, like what comes free in GlassFish

Actually, the “operations” part of your statement is incorrect. Glassfish tries to encompass too much hosting-related functionality, and therefore is fairly costly to integrate into an automated deployment and change management regime. When it comes to operations, Jetty, Resin or Tomcat has a much lower cost both up front and maintenance-wise.

You won’t notice this in operations which use pointy-clicky interfaces to manage servers, though. I guess there still are some of them out there.

]]> By: Ryan de Laplante http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/comment-page-1/#comment-4121 Ryan de Laplante Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:26:11 +0000 http://blogs.mulesoft.org/?p=1761#comment-4121 @Dimitris: That is great, and Tomcat is built-into GlassFish as the servlet container. The servlet container is a small but important part of the big picture. With a Java EE 6 application server, I can focus on developing my application instead of having to select and integrate a dozen frameworks and libraries to make up for what Tomcat is missing. I don't need to argue with every other developer because we each have our own favorite frameworks and libraries. Plus, I get sophisticated management and monitoring capabilities for free. There isn't any reason for GlassFish users to migrate to Tomcat, but there are reasons for Tomcat users to migrate to GlassFish. I remember when Oracle bought WebLogic there was a similar article on theserverside.com warning everyone that WebLogic will be neglected, and recommending they switch to something else (I forget to which vendor). Look at WebLogic now. @Karsten: It is too soon to make those kinds of assumptions or to write a blog entry about GlassFish's alleged impending doom. I will quote Eduardo: "We (old GlassFish and old WebLogic Server are sibling groups reporting to the same SVP) folks are working on the combined road map for WLS+GlassFish. Today is CiC + 4d; give us some time to deliver that roadmap and then you can use that to evaluate the situation for your readers." I will wait until then to decide whether or not to continue working with GlassFish. If I migrate, it will *not* be to Tomcat. @Dimitris: That is great, and Tomcat is built-into GlassFish as the servlet container. The servlet container is a small but important part of the big picture. With a Java EE 6 application server, I can focus on developing my application instead of having to select and integrate a dozen frameworks and libraries to make up for what Tomcat is missing. I don’t need to argue with every other developer because we each have our own favorite frameworks and libraries. Plus, I get sophisticated management and monitoring capabilities for free. There isn’t any reason for GlassFish users to migrate to Tomcat, but there are reasons for Tomcat users to migrate to GlassFish. I remember when Oracle bought WebLogic there was a similar article on theserverside.com warning everyone that WebLogic will be neglected, and recommending they switch to something else (I forget to which vendor). Look at WebLogic now.

@Karsten: It is too soon to make those kinds of assumptions or to write a blog entry about GlassFish’s alleged impending doom. I will quote Eduardo:

“We (old GlassFish and old WebLogic Server are sibling groups reporting to the same SVP) folks are working on the combined road map for WLS+GlassFish. Today is CiC + 4d; give us some time to deliver that roadmap and then you can use that to evaluate the situation for your readers.”

I will wait until then to decide whether or not to continue working with GlassFish. If I migrate, it will *not* be to Tomcat.

]]> By: Karsten Silz http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/comment-page-1/#comment-4119 Karsten Silz Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:29:46 +0000 http://blogs.mulesoft.org/?p=1761#comment-4119 To put some necessary distance between the free Glassfish and the "$10,000 per CPU" Weblogic, Glassfish "will be geared for departmental use" (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/01/27/urnidgns852573C400693880002576B900002824.DTL), like Apache Geronima and Websphere at IBM. So I expect high-end, enterprise features to either wither away from Glassfish or not being added at all, making Glassfish less attractive for some developers. To put some necessary distance between the free Glassfish and the “$10,000 per CPU” Weblogic, Glassfish “will be geared for departmental use” (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2010/01/27/urnidgns852573C400693880002576B900002824.DTL), like Apache Geronima and Websphere at IBM. So I expect high-end, enterprise features to either wither away from Glassfish or not being added at all, making Glassfish less attractive for some developers.

]]> By: Dimitris Menounos http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/comment-page-1/#comment-4117 Dimitris Menounos Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:09:10 +0000 http://blogs.mulesoft.org/?p=1761#comment-4117 @Ryan Tomcat is great because it is *focused* at doing *one* job well. That is serving your application code over HTTP, and this is the way most prominent servers work. All the other technologies you mentioned are not in the core business of an HTTP java server. They are extras that integrated together play the role of an application framework. Spring does that integration. @Ryan

Tomcat is great because it is *focused* at doing *one* job well. That is serving your application code over HTTP, and this is the way most prominent servers work. All the other technologies you mentioned are not in the core business of an HTTP java server. They are extras that integrated together play the role of an application framework. Spring does that integration.

]]> By: Ryan de Laplante http://blogs.mulesoft.org/glassfish-users-where-to-go-next/comment-page-1/#comment-4113 Ryan de Laplante Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:50:56 +0000 http://blogs.mulesoft.org/?p=1761#comment-4113 > If your primary goal is to be efficient, get outstanding ROI, and keep your runtime infrastructure, yes, Yes, YES!!! You are going to recommend GlassFish V3 and Java EE 6 right?... > Given that most web applications do not actually require full Java EE application server I have to disagree. Developers want JPA 2.0, JTA, JAX-WS, JAX-RS, Java Mail, Beans Validation, JAXB, JAXP, Servlets 3.0, JSF 2.0, CDI, EJB 3.1, etc. Ok, there will always be some masochists that choose not to use JSF 2.0/EJB 3.1/CDI, but prefer to integrate a half dozen other frameworks and libraries with XML. The rest of the Java EE portfolio is common and useful to most developers. Developers and operations also want full featured easy to use management tools, like what comes free in GlassFish. The lightweight development experience of GlassFish V3 and Java EE 6 really make the Tomcat + Spring + dozen other frameworks and libraries integrated with XML look so 2007. Java EE 6 and GlassFish V3 is more efficient and gives outstanding ROI as you described. That is the reason why GlassFish users (paying and non-paying) choose GlassFish as their strategic application server instead of Tomcat. I also watched the Oracle videos and got a very different impression about GlassFish's bright future. If they don't prevent the GlassFish engineering team from re-integrating clustering & high availability into V3.1, then I am happy to keep supporting GlassFish. > If your primary goal is to be efficient, get outstanding ROI, and keep your runtime infrastructure,

yes, Yes, YES!!! You are going to recommend GlassFish V3 and Java EE 6 right?…

> Given that most web applications do not actually require full Java EE application server

I have to disagree. Developers want JPA 2.0, JTA, JAX-WS, JAX-RS, Java Mail, Beans Validation, JAXB, JAXP, Servlets 3.0, JSF 2.0, CDI, EJB 3.1, etc. Ok, there will always be some masochists that choose not to use JSF 2.0/EJB 3.1/CDI, but prefer to integrate a half dozen other frameworks and libraries with XML. The rest of the Java EE portfolio is common and useful to most developers.

Developers and operations also want full featured easy to use management tools, like what comes free in GlassFish. The lightweight development experience of GlassFish V3 and Java EE 6 really make the Tomcat + Spring + dozen other frameworks and libraries integrated with XML look so 2007. Java EE 6 and GlassFish V3 is more efficient and gives outstanding ROI as you described. That is the reason why GlassFish users (paying and non-paying) choose GlassFish as their strategic application server instead of Tomcat.

I also watched the Oracle videos and got a very different impression about GlassFish’s bright future. If they don’t prevent the GlassFish engineering team from re-integrating clustering & high availability into V3.1, then I am happy to keep supporting GlassFish.

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